Another hysterical column about evil railroads (Washington compost)

[tariq rahim]

This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.


washingtonpost.com
Next Time, Terror Could Ride the Rails


By Marc Fisher

Thursday, July 15, 2004; Page B01


The government's list of items you may not bring aboard an airplane
includes ski poles, pliers, toy transformer robots and hockey sticks.
However, CSX and other railroads are welcome to run 90-ton tank cars
filled with deadly, highly explosive chlorine right through Washington
and its suburbs.

Why is there such an enormous gap in security standards between air
and rail? Because the 9/11 attackers used airplanes. After terrorists
assault our railroads, we'll be happy to secure that sector of the
transport network.

According to a Naval Research Laboratory study, if terrorists hit a
single chlorine car of the sort that rolls through from Alexandria to
Silver Spring virtually every day, about 100,000 Washington area
residents would die within half an hour as the toxic cloud spread as
much as 14 miles.

So naturally, you'd think our local officials would be on the warpath
to halt the flow of dangerous chemicals on the rail lines that carry
freight through Prince George's, Montgomery, Fairfax and Arlington
counties, Alexandria and the District. After all, it would be simple
to reroute hazardous freight onto the major rail line that parallels
Interstate 81 in the rural corridor from Hagerstown, Md., through the
Shenandoah Valley -- a region low on any terrorist's target list.

For many months, Fred Millar, an emergency planning consultant in
Arlington, has been warning local governments about the danger posed
by rail cars transporting chlorine and other dangerous chemicals,
highly flammable gases and explosives.

"This has become a real passion for me because it seems like such a
no-brainer," said Millar, who has been pushing for the restrictions on
behalf of Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.

Most of the officials Millar approaches agree that something should be
done. But they worry that any unilateral ban on the transport of
hazardous chemicals through their turf would bring the wrath of the
federal government and the railroad industry down upon them. Emergency
planners in Montgomery and Fairfax "wanted to know if I could get them
the money to defend themselves after the railroads sue them," he said.

So the answer Millar gets is: Let's see what the District does. After
all, Washington is the theoretical ground zero for a terrorist attack,
so it stands to reason that the District would act first. A bill
Millar helped write creating a two-mile-wide no-hazards zone around
the Mall has won support from D.C. Council members Carol Schwartz
(R-At Large) and Kathy Patterson (D-Ward 3), but the council put off
action until federal Homeland Security bosses release a study of the
vulnerability of the area's rail system. The agency has twice delayed
release of that report; today is the latest deadline.

Meanwhile, Millar has found sympathy among Homeland Security
officials; visiting their offices in Crystal City, he was surprised to
find posted on the wall a chilling photo he uses in his presentations.
It shows a chlorine tanker passing by the Capitol dome.

So far, the Bush administration has shown slim interest in rerouting
rail freight. After railroad lobbyists objected, a proposed federal
rule that would have required carriers to include routing alternatives
in their security plans was altered to remove any reference to
routing.

The rail industry has made threatening noises about suing anyone who
dares to interfere with their commerce. Yet such limits are legal; New
York City's long-standing ban on trucks carrying hazardous materials
withstood court challenges even before terrorism became an issue.

At a D.C. Council hearing, CSX testified that routing hazardous
material away from Washington actually increases danger because it
"increases cargo handling, switching and trip duration." Federal rail
administrators objected to any local ban because it would shift the
risk to some other community.

But that evades the point: Washington is a target. Other rail routes
go through places that aren't.

If you need proof of how easy it is to sabotage a rail car, watch the
trains crossing the Potomac on the Long Bridge (which runs parallel to
the 14th Street bridge). Many cars are covered with graffiti. Those
weren't railroad employees wielding the spray cans.

[Bob Tiernan]

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.

Not "self-important", but a no-brainer when it comes to
minimizing the chances of the huge death toll possible
if the Islamofascists do such a dirty deed when the
target railcar is in an urban area.

Bob t

[Railroadman]

On Sat, 24 Jul 2004 00:03:32 -0700, Bob Tiernan

Post by Bob Tiernan

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.

Not "self-important", but a no-brainer when it comes to
minimizing the chances of the huge death toll possible
if the Islamofascists do such a dirty deed when the
target railcar is in an urban area.
Bob t

The problem here is that the tracks from Alexandria through Washington
are mostly owned by CSX. Thus those cars are currently paying revenue
to CSX, while if they were rerouted as indicated, the money would go
to NS. I agree there is a danger - at one point in the late 60s
SOuthern refused to handle Liquid Petroleum Gas cars (LPG) because the
lawsuits stemming from just a single derailment, no matter what the
cause, would negate any profit for years. When the ICC complained,
Southern retaliated by running special LPG trains, 40-50 cars, all at
one speed, greatly reduced speed at that, taking siding for
everything. I once tested track by having our inspection car hooked
to such a train. Got a real good test, also took 24 hours from NO to
Birmingham.

Railroadman

[Bob Tiernan]

Post by Railroadman

Post by Bob Tiernan
Not "self-important", but a no-brainer when it
comes to minimizing the chances of the huge death
toll possible if the Islamofascists do such a dirty
deed when the target railcar is in an urban area.

The problem here is that the tracks from Alexandria
through Washington are mostly owned by CSX. Thus
those cars are currently paying revenue to CSX,
while if they were rerouted as indicated, the money
would go to NS.

Well, that's not a *problem* compared to the
real problem of making a decision based on
reducing the possible death toll. The
decision is still a no-brainer --- keep the
railcars out of urban areas. When people
start adding the factor of who gets the
revenues from track use, then the concern
for saving lives is no longer being
considered at all.

Bob T

[David Lesher]

Post by Railroadman
The problem here is that the tracks from Alexandria through Washington
are mostly owned by CSX. Thus those cars are currently paying revenue
to CSX, while if they were rerouted as indicated, the money would go
to NS. I agree there is a danger - at one point in the late 60s
SOuthern refused to handle Liquid Petroleum Gas cars (LPG) because the
lawsuits stemming from just a single derailment, no matter what the
cause, would negate any profit for years.

What freaks me is the trains running through Silver Spring that have
such great combinations: hydrochloric acid, LPG, sodium hydroxide &
mystery black "Chemtrak" cars...

At least I've not seen any LOX cars...

[Mike]

Food for thought,
Would you rather have trains running on a given (known) set of tracks or
a bunch of trucks running around, God knows where, transporting the same
hazard material.

I'll take the tracks, thank you. Even if something happens, you know
where and what to do about it. With the trucks?????

Just my two cents worth.

Mike P.

Post by David Lesher

Post by Railroadman
The problem here is that the tracks from Alexandria through Washington
are mostly owned by CSX. Thus those cars are currently paying revenue
to CSX, while if they were rerouted as indicated, the money would go
to NS. I agree there is a danger - at one point in the late 60s
SOuthern refused to handle Liquid Petroleum Gas cars (LPG) because the
lawsuits stemming from just a single derailment, no matter what the
cause, would negate any profit for years.

What freaks me is the trains running through Silver Spring that have
such great combinations: hydrochloric acid, LPG, sodium hydroxide &
mystery black "Chemtrak" cars...
At least I've not seen any LOX cars...

[Bob Tiernan]

Post by Mike
Just my two cents worth.

And here's a penny change.

Bob T

[Mark Mathu]

Post by Bob Tiernan

Post by Mike
Just my two cents worth.

And here's a penny change.

And here's one from me, too.

[Everett M. Greene]

Post by Mike

Post by David Lesher

Post by Railroadman
The problem here is that the tracks from Alexandria through Washington
are mostly owned by CSX. Thus those cars are currently paying revenue
to CSX, while if they were rerouted as indicated, the money would go
to NS. I agree there is a danger - at one point in the late 60s
SOuthern refused to handle Liquid Petroleum Gas cars (LPG) because the
lawsuits stemming from just a single derailment, no matter what the
cause, would negate any profit for years.

What freaks me is the trains running through Silver Spring that have
such great combinations: hydrochloric acid, LPG, sodium hydroxide &
mystery black "Chemtrak" cars...
At least I've not seen any LOX cars...

Food for thought,
Would you rather have trains running on a given (known) set of tracks or
a bunch of trucks running around, God knows where, transporting the same
hazard material.
I'll take the tracks, thank you. Even if something happens, you know
where and what to do about it. With the trucks?????

Right. Instead of being along a fixed route, trucks can
come right up to your front door.

[Spread Eagle]

Post by Everett M. Greene
Right. Instead of being along a fixed route, trucks can
come right up to your front door.

Or right up alongside a big building, like a federal building. Lots
of carnage and innocent death, as the bulding gets blown up and
tumbles down. Why is the fact that OK City was al Qaeda's M.O. to a
tee ignored and swept under the rug, and anyone who dares to notice it
is automatically pegged a kook?

And TWA flight 800 too. They said: "Are you nuts? Are you actually
saying that terrorists are here on our soil? Blowing up our
airplanes? And that the government would lie about it and try to keep
that a secret for as long as possible? What a kook!"

I can understand why the government lied about those incidents and
covered up that foreign terrorists were involved in them. They didn't
want the public to panic. They were smart enough and prescient enough
to know what a staggering blow it would be to the airline industry if
the public thought that terrorists were here, armed with the ability
to bring jet airlines down. And certain politicians didn't want to
be tarred with the brush of have been on watch when the terrorists
swarmed in and committed massive acts of terror, killing Americans by
the hundreds. It's understandable why they covered it up back then.

But post-9/11 those concerns are moot. In fact, if Americans realized
now that the terrorists had already been here and had already done
other acts of terror, it would reinforce the gravity of the situation,
and the importance of remaining vigilant. So it makes no sense to not
tell the truth now. Except for one thing: part and parcel of the
government making those disclosures is their admission that they
bald-faced lied and conducted massive cover-ups. In the OK City case
they would also then be admitting that they put a man to death without
telling the full story of who all was involved in the plot, and what
the condemned man's role in it was. Yeah, clearly McVeigh was
involved, and he probably even chose the place, but he wasn't alone.
This operation was right out of al Qaeda's playbook. Anybody who
can't see that is *voluntarily* blind. But the government would then
need to admit that they knew all that stuff, and that they lied about
it and covered it all up. Can the government make those kind of
confessions? And retain any credibility at all? Without all hell
breaking loose?

So now the lie remains in place solely to protect the lie.

[Mark Mathu]

Post by Spread Eagle
Why is the fact that OK City was al Qaeda's M.O. to a
tee ignored and swept under the rug, and anyone who dares to notice it
is automatically pegged a kook?

Hey kook,
Where was the "suicide" part of "suicide bomber" in Oklahoma City?

[Spread Eagle]

Post by Mark Mathu
Hey kook

bite me, jerkface.

Post by Mark Mathu
Where was the "suicide" part of "suicide bomber" in Oklahoma City?

Who said that they *always* use suicide bombers? Where was the
suicide bomber, for instance, in the 1993 WTC bombing? Note that they
did however use a rented truck loaded with explosives, parked in such
a way that they hoped would bring the building down.

Where were the suicide bombers in Madrid?

If they have someone who is stupid and deranged enough to kill himself
or herself, yeah, they'll use them, but if not they find other means.

[Mark Mathu]

Post by Spread Eagle

Post by Mark Mathu
Hey kook

bite me, jerkface.

Post by Mark Mathu
Where was the "suicide" part of "suicide bomber" in Oklahoma City?

Who said that they *always* use suicide bombers? Where was the
suicide bomber, for instance, in the 1993 WTC bombing? Note that they
did however use a rented truck loaded with explosives, parked in such
a way that they hoped would bring the building down.

Well... what do you consider al Qaeda's modus operandi to be?

[Spread Eagle]

Post by Mark Mathu
Well... what do you consider al Qaeda's modus operandi to be?

The obvious, bombs (car bombs and truck bombs are a special favorite),
targeting buildings, especially buldings of symbolic significance or
transportation targets (airlines, trains, and ships), and the death of
lots of totally innocent people.

Like I said, WTC I and OK City are too much alike to ignore. And
besides, left to their own devices and imagination, do you really
think that home-grown political malcontents would kill innocent people
by the hunderds including dozens of little kids in a day care center?
The only ones doing *that* are middle-easterners. Has any body else
ever done it?

McVeigh was heavily involved, but it was a joint effort.

[Screwball McGee]

Post by Spread Eagle

Post by Mark Mathu
Well... what do you consider al Qaeda's modus operandi to be?

The obvious, bombs (car bombs and truck bombs are a special favorite),
targeting buildings, especially buldings of symbolic significance or
transportation targets (airlines, trains, and ships), and the death of
lots of totally innocent people.
Like I said, WTC I and OK City are too much alike to ignore. And
besides, left to their own devices and imagination, do you really
think that home-grown political malcontents would kill innocent people
by the hunderds including dozens of little kids in a day care center?
The only ones doing *that* are middle-easterners. Has any body else
ever done it?
McVeigh was heavily involved, but it was a joint effort.

And why do the mideast crazies do these things?
Because they want attention for their cause.
If they were involved in the Oklahoma bombing, why did they let such a
spectacular event get away without any association between it and their
political goals?

[Spread Eagle]

Post by Screwball McGee
And why do the mideast crazies do these things?
Because they want attention for their cause.
If they were involved in the Oklahoma bombing, why did they let such a
spectacular event get away without any association between it and their
political goals?

Usually it's obvious. But when it's not, they don't necessarily go
out of their way to take credit. I don't know that anyone has ever
taken credit for 9/11, do you? No, they're happy just killing us and
disrupting our system and economy.

[Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)]

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.

I'd say that when the rails were laid down, this WAS the countryside....

Kennedy

[J. A. Mc.]

On 24 Jul 2004 19:22:42 GMT, Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)

Post by Kennedy (no longer not on The Haggis!)

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.

I'd say that when the rails were laid down, this WAS the countryside....

Just typical of the NIMBY mentality ...

[Stan de SD]

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar.

Given how much noxious gas comes out of that place to begin with, would
anyone really notice?

.

[gatt]

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.

Doesn't matter anyway. Ships come into major city seaports and offload
n-bazillion tons of cargo that is generally uninspected every day. Why
bother with a train.

General aviation suffers the same idiocy and hysteria. For example, there
was a Temporary Flight Restriction within a 3 NM radius of Portland
International yesterday because Cheney was in town. "Gee, Abullah, we were
going to hijack this jet in the name of Allah and kill the Vice President,
but there's a FLIGHT RESTRICTION which means it's ILLEGAL to fly there.
Allah will have to wait because we could get in SERIOUS TROUBLE WITH THE
FAA!"

Like, if a guy was going to kill the Vice President he'd do it in a Cessna
152 or some crap in the first place. Now they're shutting down airways, air
corridors, airfields, etc even though there HAS NOT been an act of terrorism
committed by an aircraft since 9/11, and the 9/11 terrorists would have
ignored such restrictions anyway.

Michael Moore had one thing right: The government and the media thrive by
keeping Americans fearful of Osama the Boogeyman. (Or the Republicans, or
the Democrats...)

-c

[Ricardo Montalban]

Note that obviously, the motivation for this has nothing to do with

Post by tariq rahim
"This has become a real passion for me because it seems like such a
no-brainer," said Millar, who has been pushing for the restrictions on
behalf of Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.

[TIM]

Post by tariq rahim
This clown urges that "dangerous" railcars be rerouted to the
countryside, lest terrorists gas the residents of DC by sabotaging a
passing railcar. I like the assumption that country hicks are a lower
terrorist priority, let them put up with the risk of mass murder.
Typical self-important city view.
washingtonpost.com
Next Time, Terror Could Ride the Rails
By Marc Fisher
Thursday, July 15, 2004; Page B01
The government's list of items you may not bring aboard an airplane
includes ski poles, pliers, toy transformer robots and hockey sticks.
However, CSX and other railroads are welcome to run 90-ton tank cars
filled with deadly, highly explosive chlorine right through Washington
and its suburbs.
Why is there such an enormous gap in security standards between air
and rail? Because the 9/11 attackers used airplanes. After terrorists
assault our railroads, we'll be happy to secure that sector of the
transport network.
According to a Naval Research Laboratory study, if terrorists hit a
single chlorine car of the sort that rolls through from Alexandria to
Silver Spring virtually every day, about 100,000 Washington area
residents would die within half an hour as the toxic cloud spread as
much as 14 miles.
So naturally, you'd think our local officials would be on the warpath
to halt the flow of dangerous chemicals on the rail lines that carry
freight through Prince George's, Montgomery, Fairfax and Arlington
counties, Alexandria and the District. After all, it would be simple
to reroute hazardous freight onto the major rail line that parallels
Interstate 81 in the rural corridor from Hagerstown, Md., through the
Shenandoah Valley -- a region low on any terrorist's target list.
For many months, Fred Millar, an emergency planning consultant in
Arlington, has been warning local governments about the danger posed
by rail cars transporting chlorine and other dangerous chemicals,
highly flammable gases and explosives.
"This has become a real passion for me because it seems like such a
no-brainer," said Millar, who has been pushing for the restrictions on
behalf of Friends of the Earth, Greenpeace and the Sierra Club.
Most of the officials Millar approaches agree that something should be
done. But they worry that any unilateral ban on the transport of
hazardous chemicals through their turf would bring the wrath of the
federal government and the railroad industry down upon them. Emergency
planners in Montgomery and Fairfax "wanted to know if I could get them
the money to defend themselves after the railroads sue them," he said.
So the answer Millar gets is: Let's see what the District does. After
all, Washington is the theoretical ground zero for a terrorist attack,
so it stands to reason that the District would act first. A bill
Millar helped write creating a two-mile-wide no-hazards zone around
the Mall has won support from D.C. Council members Carol Schwartz
(R-At Large) and Kathy Patterson (D-Ward 3), but the council put off
action until federal Homeland Security bosses release a study of the
vulnerability of the area's rail system. The agency has twice delayed
release of that report; today is the latest deadline.
Meanwhile, Millar has found sympathy among Homeland Security
officials; visiting their offices in Crystal City, he was surprised to
find posted on the wall a chilling photo he uses in his presentations.
It shows a chlorine tanker passing by the Capitol dome.
So far, the Bush administration has shown slim interest in rerouting
rail freight. After railroad lobbyists objected, a proposed federal
rule that would have required carriers to include routing alternatives
in their security plans was altered to remove any reference to
routing.
The rail industry has made threatening noises about suing anyone who
dares to interfere with their commerce. Yet such limits are legal; New
York City's long-standing ban on trucks carrying hazardous materials
withstood court challenges even before terrorism became an issue.
At a D.C. Council hearing, CSX testified that routing hazardous
material away from Washington actually increases danger because it
"increases cargo handling, switching and trip duration." Federal rail
administrators objected to any local ban because it would shift the
risk to some other community.
But that evades the point: Washington is a target. Other rail routes
go through places that aren't.
If you need proof of how easy it is to sabotage a rail car, watch the
trains crossing the Potomac on the Long Bridge (which runs parallel to
the 14th Street bridge). Many cars are covered with graffiti. Those
weren't railroad employees wielding the spray cans.

I live in Louisville Ky And Their are over 400 chemical companies in
the Metro city/county Line And IF ALQUIDA WHERE TO HIT LOUISVILLE It
Would Probibly Kill All 1.4 Millon People in the city and sarounding
counties

and as far as I've seen Louisville Mayor Jerry Abromson and Kentucky
Govenior Ernie Fletcher are NOT GOING TO DO A DAMN THING ABOUT
CHEMICAL BY RAIL SACURITY
For Gods sake A Liquid Thurmite Car unit train Was on a Dubledup train
I Saw the other day inside of the OLD CITY(germentown). CSX Seems to
have a FAT GUY DIET TYPE ATTATUDE (THEY DO WHAT THEY WANT WHEN THAY
WANT)